Warner’s Safe Cure: Some Very Rare Safe Remedies

Warner's Safe Diabetes Remedy in Green

Recently, Michael Seeliger was in San Jose giving a presentation on Warner’s to their bottle club.  He had the opportunity to see the collection of Michael and Kathy Craig, which includes some very nice Warner’s and he was kind enough to share them with me. Thanks also to the Craigs for allowing me to post these.

The photo above is an exceptionally rare Diabetes Remedy in green. How about a  3-Cities Safe Cure in green?

Warner's Safe Cure 3- Cities in Green

By any standard, the Craigs have a nice collection of Warner’s, including some rare examples including an olive Kidney & Liver Remedy, a clear Diabetes Remedy and a clear Kidney & Liver Remedy for starters. And, appropriately enough, a nice collection of Craigs cures.

Warner’s Collection of Michael & Kathy Craig

Collecting Warner’s can be kind of addicting. Once you get into them, you always want that variant that you don’t have. As with most addictions, the problem is that you just can’t stop. Thanks again to Mike and to the Craigs for allowing a peek into their collection. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.

Warner’s Safe Cure: The Rochester “A” List (Part II)

Although the Warner’s Safe Cures manufactured by the Chambers Works are early examples of the Safe Cure bottles, they are not the earliest.  After Warner acquired  the rights to Dr. Craig’s Kidney Cure, one of his first bottles was the shoulder-embossed Safe Cure (pictured above). While I would not consider this bottle to be rare, they have become harder to get.  The same is true for the Rochester Safe Cure. Only in Rochester was Safe Cure called “Safe Kidney & Liver Cure”. In all the other foreign offices, it was simply referred to as “Safe Cure.” For a short period, the Rochester bottle was also embossed “Safe Cure”.

While neither the shoulder-embossed Safe Cure nor the Rochester Safe Cure make the “A” List, there are some that do. For example, this aqua Kidney & Liver Remedy. While the amber is relatively common and the clear would likely be considered more scarce, aqua is down right rare.

 The same might be said of two  other Rochester variants, both of which are considered mold errors. The first is the “No Safe” Safe Remedies Company. For whatever reason, the bottle manufacturer omitted the word “Safe” from the mold leaving the bottle embossed “Warner’s Remedies Co.”  While the unlabelled Warner’s Safe Remedies Co. bottles are considered common, the Warner’s Remedies Co. are rare. The second variant is made rare, not be the omission of embossing, but by the addition of it. It is the half pint Nervine with “8 OZ” embossed just below the neck. Here again, the half pint Nervine is considered fairly common, but in this case, the glassmaker probably used a half pint Safe Cure mold and slugged out the word “Cure,” replacing it with “Nervine.” The result is a fairly rare variant.

Another very difficult Rochester find is the Warner’s Safe Remedy sample. While the Safe Cure sample appears regularly, the Safe Remedy sample comes around far less often.  Find one that’s labelled and you have a real gem. This is also true of the labeled Safe Diabetes Remedy sample.

Most discriminating bottle collectors turn their noses up a screw top bottles. However, not all screw top medicines are considered equal. Take, for example, the Warner’s Compound bottles sold by the Warner’s Remedies Company. These very late Warner’s are highly prized by Warner’s collectors due to their rarity.

The other significant category of Rochester Warner’s are the Log Cabin Remedies. They are the subject of Part III of this series.

Warner’s Collector Profile: Mike Seeliger

For those of you who have collected Warner’s Safe Cures for many years, the name Mike Seeliger is familiar. For those who are new to Warner’s collecting, Mike was one of the pioneers and published the first guide to collecting Warner’s Safe Cures back in 1974 called “H.H. Warner: His Company & His Bottles.” I started collecting Warner’s shortly after Mike published his book, so he deserves a good deal of the credit (or blame) for getting me hooked on these bottles. Mike also participated in the Great Warner’s Safe Cure Exhibit on April 21, 2001 in Rochester. I was fortunate enough to be asked to participate in that exhibit and to get the chance to meet Mike.

When I started this blog, I wanted to interview some of the collectors who have contributed  to Warner’s collecting and have posted interviews of Jack Stecher and Dave Kyle. Mike was also on my short list and I am happy to report that he agreed to participate. Thanks to Mike for bringing Warner’s collecting into its own and for sharing some of his insights.

1.    When did you first start collecting Warner’s Safe bottles?

     I actually started collecting Ruby Red Schlitz throw away bottles. We would find them and could sell them for about $6 each. These were made in 1963. This was about 1969 or so. We then found some ruby red beers from 1949-1953 and these brought even more money (Quarts and 7oz returnables). We would find the old dumps and leave them alone. Then we found that this is where the real money was and the real interest. I would go out with my Aunt and hunt bottles during the day when I wasn’t attending classes at the University of Wisconsin.

2.    Why?

     When we would dig a dump at an old farm house or go into an abandoned farm building or house, you could almost write the history of the illnesses, and what the family was doing based on the old stuff in dumps. You knew what illnesses they had and what they drank or used for food based on the bottles that ended up in the dump.

3.    What was the first Warner’s Safe bottle that you added to your collection?

     After hunting one morning, I went up to an old abandoned house and started digging behind it. The hillside sloped down about 80 feet into the Wisconsin River. The whole hillside was broken Warner bottles. There were double collar tops, blobs, cures, remedys and even a Safe Remedies Co. pieces. I have a olive green corner of a warner (K&L Remedy) that I found there. No whole bottles. I always wanted a Warner bottle but had not acquired one.

     Then my shovel struck a Warner bottle right in the middle. I reached down and started digging with my hand. The bottle was upside down so it might be intact. It was. A double collar K&L cure. I almost cried I was so happy and excited. I quickly rushed to the car and hid it in case I got kicked out of the dump.

     I ended up digging 5 whole bottles out of that dump. 3 Cures and 2 Remedys.  Almost every bottle in the dump was a Warner.  KL cures and remedys.  There was never a Nervine, Diabetes Cure, Bitters, Tippecanoe or anything else. Seems this family needed to cure their Kidneys or liver and that was all. The bottles ranged in age for over 25 years. They must have been a great customer of Warner.

 

4.    What is the last Warner’s Safe bottle that you added to your collection?

     I just added a nice double collar reverse safe.

 

5.    Out of the Warner’s Safe bottles that you own or have owned, which was your favorite and why?

     1. The labeled Animal cure on Ojea’s cover. I offered it to Jack Stecher when I sold it but Jack couldn’t buy it then. He eventually got it from Luke. The bottle is the king of all cures and labeled at that.

     2. If you read the second “Collecting All Cures” by Agee, you will see a reference in the back talking about 2 Animal cures London that I sent him.

     I had argued with the owner of a shop about their authenticity and he wanted $18 for them. I said they were fake. Finally, I bought them when I came to my senses and realized that $18 was a small price to pay for an Animal cure even if it was a repro.

     The two were different colors, olive and apple green. I started to realize that they were English glass. Why two different colors of repros? Were they real? I called Agee and discussed. I sent them to him to see. I also sent them to Jack to see. Were they real?

     Agee said he didn’t know but if they were real, they were the greatest cure to be found at the time. The rest is history.

     At that time I found an “Antique Trader Magazine” in England and started to advertise for Warner bottles. Suddenly I could by all sorts of them. Bottle hunting was just beginning in England and I had the market almost to myself. It was great. Soon I was collecting all sorts of Warners. I also found some collectors in Australia and Germany and started to get Warners and began to trade, buy and sell.

     I did buy Lafferty’s collection that had the Bitters, Tonics and Tonic Bitters in it. Also it had a black glass Diabetes cure 4 cities and a Safe cure 4 cities that was almost clear on top and light amber at the base. The two were quite a pair.

 

6.    Is there a Warner’s Safe bottle that you always wanted, but were never able to add to your collection?  If yes, which one?

     I think the green Tippecanoe is the greatest Warner of all time.

7.    Apart from Warner’s Safe bottles, is there another piece of Warner’s advertising or paper that is your favorite? If yes, what is it?

     I collected all the Almanacs I could find. When I compared them from year to year I could trace Warner’s expansion through the years. I finally had to write a book to clear up all the confusion about Warner bottles in the early 1970s. The books written up until then didn’t do Warner justice.

 

8.    What’s your best story (or stories if you have more than one) about getting a Warner’s Safe bottle?  The more details, the better.

     The two stories about digging my first and the Animal cures from London are the best. My next best story is a man who called me from Germany. He had 14 Warners from Frankfurt that came out of his wife’s attic. He wanted $1200 for the lot. I didn’t have that kind of money at the time. I went to my father and asked for a loan. He thought I was crazy. But I had never asked for anything before.  He said are you sure you can get your money out of them? Needless to say when I received the bottles 9 Cures 4 green ones, and 5 Nervines large and small some with labels I had no problem selling them. He got his money back in 2 weeks.

     Another story really is about writing my book. Back then it was written by my wife Alice (Married 39 years) and I with a typewriter sitting on the picnic table out in the back yard. The bottles were drawn around a cardboard template and all the drawings were done by me freehand. I kept trying to make it as complete as possible but Warner bottles kept turning up. Soon I had to publish it. I bought 250 copies for $1 each printed by Insty Prints. I sold them for $2.50 which included the postage. The first few I didn’t sign and these are the rare ones after that I signed each one.

     I believe in the dedication at the front of the book. My wife’s understanding of my need to collect and my enthusiasm toward bottles has allowed this all to be an important part of my entire life. I think that without this any collector will tear apart a marriage, collecting can become an addiction. A good addiction but an addiction none the less.

     I did walk into a store to find a large safe with H.H. Warner sole agent written on the front. Store owner wouldn’t sell it to me. It is still there although he painted some screens while leaning then against the safe a few years ago.

9.    If H. H. Warner were still alive and you could interview him, what questions would be at the top of your list?

     Did you really think this cured anyone?

     How did you develop your great marketing plan?

     The 9 ½ inch Safe Cure (safe) Rochester N Y, where did that bottle fit in in the time frame of Warner bottles? Is it a mold error like the reverse safe?  How about that reverse safe, did you know about it?

      Also the Safe cure around the neck, I think it is a transition bottle between the Double collar K&L cure and the blob because it has the Safe Cure Label on it not the K&L cure label, when was it used?

 

10.  Other than Warner’s Safe bottles, what is your favorite bottle or bottles? Why?

     I have both of the Spark’s bottles. I really like them. One time I found a Spark’s dose cup.

 

11.  What’s the best way to encourage young bottle collectors to develop an interest in Warner’s Safe bottles?

 

     Unfortunately digging is really the way to really get to like bottles. When you look at bottles they seem to reek history. I love black glass and think about Washington, Jefferson and others drinking out of them. I love movies that are true to bottles in the period films.

     Bottle collecting has made me some very dear friends that have been with me all my life, this is the best part. Now I go to bottle shows with Bill Mitchell of Steven’s Point Wisconsin we make about 8 shows a year and the National Show is the high point.

Thanks again Mike. I think if I had come across that dump with all of the Warner’s, I might have gone into shock. Needless to say, the price of Animal Cures has risen somewhat from $18, not to mention the price of Frankfurts, especially Nervines and labelled ones. With any luck, I will try to get Mike to provide us with some more Warner’s stories and information that will dazzle you.

The Rise and Fall of the Warner Empire: The Warner’s Safe Remedies Co. (Part VIII)

Warner’s slide into insolvency was hastened by the Panic of 1893, which some historians compare to the Great Depression of the late 1920′s and 1930′s. However, the fact of the matter is that H. H. Warner was the architect of his own misfortune. His once great patent medicine empire could not support the weight of his wildly speculative investments and ever diminishing interest in managing his once great enterprise. His collapse surprised many, who had seen him as favorite son of Rochester. Indeed, in December, 1887, he had been elected as president of the newly formed Rochester Chamber of Commerce. Ironically, Warner’s inaugeral address to the organization highlighted the importance of reinvestment of capital to promote business growth. The Chamber later selected Warner as their Man of the Year over a lesser known camera maker named George Eastman. Clearly, the Kodak would never last.

 By 1893, however, Warner’s successes were ancient history. The British directors of the H. H. Warner & Co. Ltd. voted that his stock should be forfieted as a penalty for his mismanagement. With his last valuable asset stripped away, Warner filed for bankruptcy and spent the remaining years of his life attempting to regain his business prominence. Although he was out as the owner of the company, it continued to exist without him. Atwater reports that the American branch of the company was sold to Rochester businessmen, J. J. DeMay and S. B. Keaner, who moved it back to Rochester to occupy the Duffy Malt Whiskey warehouse and it survived on an ever diminishing scale until the mid-1940′s.

Under the management of DeMay and Keaner, the company produced remedies under the name Warner’s Safe Remedies Company, which included a Diabetes Remedy, Rheumatic Remedy, Kidney & Liver Remedy, Acute Rheumatic Compound, Compound: A Diuretic, Nervine and Sedative.  As Seeliger reports, these bottles had the same embossing with different labels to designate the specific contents. An approach similar to that used with the H. H. Warner & Co. Ltd. bottles in Melbourne. The Safe Remedies Co. bottles generally appear as amber, aqua and clear variants, although a select few may have color variations that make them more valuable.

From its beginning in 1879, Warner’s Safe Remedies had been a dramatic success growing almost exponentially and spreading out to the four corners of the globe. Perhaps in the end, its rapid success with Warner at the helm was its undoing. Perhaps he began to believe that everything he invested in was bound to produce the riches he had become accustomed to. Whatever the reason, by 1893, Warner’s intuitive skills for investing and marketing failed him. The star that had burned so brilliantly was burning itself out. Although Warner would live another 30 years, he would live them in the shadow of his former successes.