Warner’s Collector Profile: Mike Seeliger

For those of you who have collected Warner’s Safe Cures for many years, the name Mike Seeliger is familiar. For those who are new to Warner’s collecting, Mike was one of the pioneers and published the first guide to collecting Warner’s Safe Cures back in 1974 called “H.H. Warner: His Company & His Bottles.” I started collecting Warner’s shortly after Mike published his book, so he deserves a good deal of the credit (or blame) for getting me hooked on these bottles. Mike also participated in the Great Warner’s Safe Cure Exhibit on April 21, 2001 in Rochester. I was fortunate enough to be asked to participate in that exhibit and to get the chance to meet Mike.

When I started this blog, I wanted to interview some of the collectors who have contributed  to Warner’s collecting and have posted interviews of Jack Stecher and Dave Kyle. Mike was also on my short list and I am happy to report that he agreed to participate. Thanks to Mike for bringing Warner’s collecting into its own and for sharing some of his insights.

1.    When did you first start collecting Warner’s Safe bottles?

     I actually started collecting Ruby Red Schlitz throw away bottles. We would find them and could sell them for about $6 each. These were made in 1963. This was about 1969 or so. We then found some ruby red beers from 1949-1953 and these brought even more money (Quarts and 7oz returnables). We would find the old dumps and leave them alone. Then we found that this is where the real money was and the real interest. I would go out with my Aunt and hunt bottles during the day when I wasn’t attending classes at the University of Wisconsin.

2.    Why?

     When we would dig a dump at an old farm house or go into an abandoned farm building or house, you could almost write the history of the illnesses, and what the family was doing based on the old stuff in dumps. You knew what illnesses they had and what they drank or used for food based on the bottles that ended up in the dump.

3.    What was the first Warner’s Safe bottle that you added to your collection?

     After hunting one morning, I went up to an old abandoned house and started digging behind it. The hillside sloped down about 80 feet into the Wisconsin River. The whole hillside was broken Warner bottles. There were double collar tops, blobs, cures, remedys and even a Safe Remedies Co. pieces. I have a olive green corner of a warner (K&L Remedy) that I found there. No whole bottles. I always wanted a Warner bottle but had not acquired one.

     Then my shovel struck a Warner bottle right in the middle. I reached down and started digging with my hand. The bottle was upside down so it might be intact. It was. A double collar K&L cure. I almost cried I was so happy and excited. I quickly rushed to the car and hid it in case I got kicked out of the dump.

     I ended up digging 5 whole bottles out of that dump. 3 Cures and 2 Remedys.  Almost every bottle in the dump was a Warner.  KL cures and remedys.  There was never a Nervine, Diabetes Cure, Bitters, Tippecanoe or anything else. Seems this family needed to cure their Kidneys or liver and that was all. The bottles ranged in age for over 25 years. They must have been a great customer of Warner.

 

4.    What is the last Warner’s Safe bottle that you added to your collection?

     I just added a nice double collar reverse safe.

 

5.    Out of the Warner’s Safe bottles that you own or have owned, which was your favorite and why?

     1. The labeled Animal cure on Ojea’s cover. I offered it to Jack Stecher when I sold it but Jack couldn’t buy it then. He eventually got it from Luke. The bottle is the king of all cures and labeled at that.

     2. If you read the second “Collecting All Cures” by Agee, you will see a reference in the back talking about 2 Animal cures London that I sent him.

     I had argued with the owner of a shop about their authenticity and he wanted $18 for them. I said they were fake. Finally, I bought them when I came to my senses and realized that $18 was a small price to pay for an Animal cure even if it was a repro.

     The two were different colors, olive and apple green. I started to realize that they were English glass. Why two different colors of repros? Were they real? I called Agee and discussed. I sent them to him to see. I also sent them to Jack to see. Were they real?

     Agee said he didn’t know but if they were real, they were the greatest cure to be found at the time. The rest is history.

     At that time I found an “Antique Trader Magazine” in England and started to advertise for Warner bottles. Suddenly I could by all sorts of them. Bottle hunting was just beginning in England and I had the market almost to myself. It was great. Soon I was collecting all sorts of Warners. I also found some collectors in Australia and Germany and started to get Warners and began to trade, buy and sell.

     I did buy Lafferty’s collection that had the Bitters, Tonics and Tonic Bitters in it. Also it had a black glass Diabetes cure 4 cities and a Safe cure 4 cities that was almost clear on top and light amber at the base. The two were quite a pair.

 

6.    Is there a Warner’s Safe bottle that you always wanted, but were never able to add to your collection?  If yes, which one?

     I think the green Tippecanoe is the greatest Warner of all time.

7.    Apart from Warner’s Safe bottles, is there another piece of Warner’s advertising or paper that is your favorite? If yes, what is it?

     I collected all the Almanacs I could find. When I compared them from year to year I could trace Warner’s expansion through the years. I finally had to write a book to clear up all the confusion about Warner bottles in the early 1970s. The books written up until then didn’t do Warner justice.

 

8.    What’s your best story (or stories if you have more than one) about getting a Warner’s Safe bottle?  The more details, the better.

     The two stories about digging my first and the Animal cures from London are the best. My next best story is a man who called me from Germany. He had 14 Warners from Frankfurt that came out of his wife’s attic. He wanted $1200 for the lot. I didn’t have that kind of money at the time. I went to my father and asked for a loan. He thought I was crazy. But I had never asked for anything before.  He said are you sure you can get your money out of them? Needless to say when I received the bottles 9 Cures 4 green ones, and 5 Nervines large and small some with labels I had no problem selling them. He got his money back in 2 weeks.

     Another story really is about writing my book. Back then it was written by my wife Alice (Married 39 years) and I with a typewriter sitting on the picnic table out in the back yard. The bottles were drawn around a cardboard template and all the drawings were done by me freehand. I kept trying to make it as complete as possible but Warner bottles kept turning up. Soon I had to publish it. I bought 250 copies for $1 each printed by Insty Prints. I sold them for $2.50 which included the postage. The first few I didn’t sign and these are the rare ones after that I signed each one.

     I believe in the dedication at the front of the book. My wife’s understanding of my need to collect and my enthusiasm toward bottles has allowed this all to be an important part of my entire life. I think that without this any collector will tear apart a marriage, collecting can become an addiction. A good addiction but an addiction none the less.

     I did walk into a store to find a large safe with H.H. Warner sole agent written on the front. Store owner wouldn’t sell it to me. It is still there although he painted some screens while leaning then against the safe a few years ago.

9.    If H. H. Warner were still alive and you could interview him, what questions would be at the top of your list?

     Did you really think this cured anyone?

     How did you develop your great marketing plan?

     The 9 ½ inch Safe Cure (safe) Rochester N Y, where did that bottle fit in in the time frame of Warner bottles? Is it a mold error like the reverse safe?  How about that reverse safe, did you know about it?

      Also the Safe cure around the neck, I think it is a transition bottle between the Double collar K&L cure and the blob because it has the Safe Cure Label on it not the K&L cure label, when was it used?

 

10.  Other than Warner’s Safe bottles, what is your favorite bottle or bottles? Why?

     I have both of the Spark’s bottles. I really like them. One time I found a Spark’s dose cup.

 

11.  What’s the best way to encourage young bottle collectors to develop an interest in Warner’s Safe bottles?

 

     Unfortunately digging is really the way to really get to like bottles. When you look at bottles they seem to reek history. I love black glass and think about Washington, Jefferson and others drinking out of them. I love movies that are true to bottles in the period films.

     Bottle collecting has made me some very dear friends that have been with me all my life, this is the best part. Now I go to bottle shows with Bill Mitchell of Steven’s Point Wisconsin we make about 8 shows a year and the National Show is the high point.

Thanks again Mike. I think if I had come across that dump with all of the Warner’s, I might have gone into shock. Needless to say, the price of Animal Cures has risen somewhat from $18, not to mention the price of Frankfurts, especially Nervines and labelled ones. With any luck, I will try to get Mike to provide us with some more Warner’s stories and information that will dazzle you.

Warner’s Safe Cure: Wikipedia

For those of you who don’t know, Wikipedia had become somewhat of an online phenomenon as a source of information about people, places and things. The interesting thing about it is that you can log on and supplement, revise or update a particular article. It’s a fascinating notion, but subject to substantial inaccuracies or biases depending on the point of view of the author or those who revise the article. My friends in academia shudder when the word Wikipedia is mentioned, because some unenterprising students cite to it as primary authority, which it most certainly is not.

With that caveat, I had occasion to look up our favorite 19th Century entrepeneur, good ole Hulbert Harrington Warner and was dismayed to find a very cursory and incomplete summary of his historical significance. I decided that would not do, so with liberal reliance on Jack Stecher’s “H. H. Warner: World Renowned Patent Medicine King Biographical Sketch” and Edward Atwater’s “Hulbert Harrington Warner and the Perfect Ptich,” I composed an improved entry and posted it. I left the original entry at the bottom (last two paragraphs of the article), because I did not feel it was my place to delete it. It will also give you a basis for comparison.

I had wanted to post a picture of H. H. Warner to accompany the article, but Wikipedia’s requirements for attribution and source are so complex that I gave up even though I am certain the the engraving I use on this blog is well within the public domain. If anyone can navigate Wikipedia’s requirements, let me know and I am happy to pass along the photo to be included. If fact, I will add it to this post. I included the link to the Wikipedia article above, but if that link is not working, it can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulbert_Harrington_Warner.

Warner’s Safe Promotions: Safe Cook Book

In my May 12 post I talked about the prominance of Warner’s Safe Yeast among the company’s marketed products and, in so doing, mentioned one of Warner’s lasting contributions to the culinary arts. Well, perhaps that’s a bit of an overstatement, but the distribution of his Safe Cook Book put his company’s name in the hands of those who undoubtedly did most, if not all, of the 19th Century family’s domestic purchasing…..women.

I have attached copies of the Fifth Edition and Ninth Edition including both the front and back covers. The Cookbook was first published in 1887 and continued to be published for many years afterward. The books provide an interesting insight into Victorian life. They include recipes for a wide array of foods from soups to meats to vegetables and desserts. Perhaps the most notable difference between the Safe Cookbooks and cookbooks of today are that the recipes are in a narrative form and do not include itemized lists of ingredients. They do include the measurements within the narrative.

Not one to miss the marketing angle, Warner included in the Safe Cookbook a small section at the back of the book discussing various types of maladies and their recommended treatment, which, not surprisingly, included the generous use of Warner’s Safe Remedies. The cover of the Safe Cookbook included the boast that “the Superiority of these Recipies will be appreciated when tried.”

Warner’s Safe Cure: It’s All in the Lips

Since I began this blog back in March, I have spent considerable time talking about the history of the Warner empire, the products marketed by Warner and the all important bottles that contained his wonderous elixirs. I have talked about the colors of those bottles, their labels and even some of the mistakes. I have, however, neglected one important feature those bottles….their lips. Now, that sounds like a relatively minor omission, but an important one nevertheless.

Over the course of its history, the Warner Safe Cure Company used a variety of lips on its bottles. The lips vary depending one when a particular bottle was manufactured and where it came from. Let me correct my omission, but illustrating some of the lips that graced Warner’s Safe Remedies over the years.

DOUBLE COLLAR – the double collar lip is distinct among the early Warner’s Safe Cures that came from Rochester: Safe Kidney & Liver Cure, Safe Nervine, Safe Diabetes Cure, Safe Rheumatic Cure, Safe Bitters, Safe Tonic and Safe Tonic Bitters. They also appear on the 3-City Cures sold from the Toronto Office and the early 4-Cities bottles from the Dundein Office (which were likely made in the United States).

MEDICINE COLLAR – this lip is noticeably present on some of the half pint varieties of the early Warner’s Safe Cures, such as the Safe Bitters and Safe Tonic, but not the Safe Tonic Bitters.

BLOB COLLAR – The blob collar is perhaps the most extensively used lip among Warner’s Safe Remedies. It effectively replaced the double collar and medicine collar lips and appeared in all variety of Safe Cures from almost all of the foreign offices, with the exception of Toronto. It was also used in the Log Cabin Remedies bottles.

FLARED OR TIPPECANOE – this lip is fairly unique among antique bottles and Warner even took out a patent on the Tippecanoe bottle design to protect it from imitators. Its mushroom lip is attached to the familiar log shaped bottle embossed with a canoe.

SMALL SQUARE LIP – the small square lip was less common than its large brother, but appeared in several Warner bottles, namely the sample bottles both from Rochester and London.

LARGE SQUARE LIP – the large square lip or collar graced later Warner bottles, most notably the Warner’s Safe Remedies Co. bottles in their various colors.

These represent the principal types of lips found on Warner’s Safe bottles. You will undoubtedly find some examples that are exagerated or diminished versions of these styles. Many thanks to Ed Ojea for assistance with the photos and for being the first to categorize Warner bottles based on lip type in his Warner’s Reference Guide. Watch those lips!

Warner’s Safe Errors: 3-Cities Safe Cure “Reversed N’s”

Although the Warner’s reversed or left hand safe is perhaps the most classic of Warner’s error bottles, one of the rarest is the 3-Cities Reversed N’s. This bottle (only one example is known) is in all other respects a typical Toronto (3-Cities) Safe Cure. However, upon close inspection of the embossing along each side, the error becomes clear. The “N’s” in London, England and in Toronto, Canada are all reversed. It is astonishing that the glassmaker that assembled the mold that produced this bottled so completely flubbed the letters.  Having said that, I suspect that the person doing the assembly was required to assemble the letters in reverse, so getting the “N’s” backwards is understandable.  I suspect it was an error that was quickly caught by quality control, which explains the rarity of this unique bottle.

The Warner’s Reference Guide lists it as 69A and notes its status as a one-of-a-kind. Thanks to Ed Ojea for the photographs of this rare bottle.

Warner’s Foreign Offices: Toronto (3-Cities) Revisited

Back in June, when I first wrote about the Warner’s Safe Cure office in Toronto, I promised to update you as I came across additional material. Well, thanks in no small part to the work of Wayne Harris in Australia, I can keep that promise.  When I profiled the London Office, I was able to provide you with a fairly complete list of the addresses at which that office was located from its inception to its demise. Toronto was another story. I was never able to find any published material that provided that information. Thankfully, Wayne had been doing research on the Toronto Office and was kind enough to pass along (as best as he can tell) the locations of the Toronto Office duing its existence.

The listings for the Toronto Office were as follows:

1883     H. H. Warner & Co., 18 Front Street East, Toronto. Proprietary Medicines.[This is the first listing for Warner in Toronto].

1894     No Listing for H. H. Warner.

1895     Warner’s Safe Cure Co., 42 Lombard Street.

1896     No Listing for Warner’s Safe Cure Co.

1899     The Warner Safe Cure Co., E. H. Woolley, Agent, 44-46 Lombard Street.

1906     Edward H. Woolley & Sons are listed at the Corner of Atlantic & Pacific Avenues.

1909     Edward H. Wooley & Sons are listed at the Corner of Atlantic & Hanna Avenues.

1922     No Listing for Warner’s Safe Cure Co., but listing for E. H. Woolley & Son at 348-350 Sorauren Avenue.

1924     E. H. Woolley & Sons listed at 42 Wellington Avenue.

1929     No Listing for  E. H. Woolley & Sons.

1937     E. H. Woolley & Sons and Warner’s Safe Remedies Co. both listed at 3rd Floor, Caulk Building, West Side, 172 John Street.

1938     The last mention of the Woolley firm and Warner’s Safe Remedies Co.

1939     No mention of Warner’s Safe Remedies Co. and the Woolley firm appears to have fragmented.

Wayne notes that although the Warner’s Safe Cure Co. and its successors as well as the E. H. Woolley & Sons firm are not continuously listed at various times, the Woolley firm likely acted as agents for The Warner Safe Cure Co. and its successors from 1899 until 1939.

Special thanks to Wayne and his contacts in Canada for running down this information, which has not been published previously to my knowledge. It raises the question of whether any of the buildings that served as offices for the Toronto branch are still standing. As I am well distant from Toronto, that’s a question someone else will have to answer.

Warner’s Safe Cure: “Big Print” London Safe Cure

A few years ago, someone showed me one of the most unusual Warner’s Safe Cures I had ever seen. In most respects it appeared to be a typical half pint London Safe Cure, with one major exception. The words “Safe Cure” are very large and very crude. At first, I assumed that this was some kind of mold error. But it’s not really an error. Nothing is misspelled or reversed. The only oddity is the size of the print.

I’ve only seen one example of this bottle, but understand that one other may exist. Accordingly, it should be considered rare and consequently more valuable than the normal London half pint. Take a look at the picture above and tell me what you think. Thanks to Ed Ojea for the photograph of this unique bottle.